Discussion:
[schooltool] The Future of SchoolTool
Tom Hoffman
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Hello all,

August has found SchoolTool in somewhat of a state of crisis. We are
(again) behind schedule, and while there are many small issues that
have caused delays, the overarching issue is that we planned and
budgeted for X hours of work from our various contractors, and we've
ended up with Y actual hours of work, where Y is about .5X. Beyond
that, I've got essentially no developers available now to get ready
for the start of the school year.

I'm not going to go into the gory details of how and why this
occurred, but there are a few implications:

* We are simply not in a position to follow through with comprehensive
testing at our partner schools at the beginning of the school year.
This is frustrating and embarrassing for us, and a disappointment for
everyone concerned. I did select schools that have existing systems
that they can continue to use in the fall, so it should be at most an
inconvenience and not a crisis.

* We have to conclude that the way we've organized this project isn't
working. Specifically, I'm not aware of another open source project,
especially one of SchoolTool's complexity, which has tried to use
teams of part-time paid contractors to write the code. We've been
able to write lots of good code, good components, but *finishing*
SchoolTool as a unified, coherent application has eluded us, and it
feels like without changes I could be writing exactly the same
apologetic email every six months.

So... Mark and Steve Alexander and I had a talk on Tuesday to plan out
some changes. These bits are still in the planning stages.

* We are going to hire a single full-time developer to handle the bulk
of SchoolTool development (instead of several part-time teams). I
would like this developer to also act more in the traditional role of
an open source project maintainer. I want to step away from trying to
be the mediator (or the "decider" as Bush would say) on technical
decisions. We may create a technical advisory board to help make
larger architectural decisions in the future.

* The full-time developer will work on site at a local school and will
create a complete version of SchoolTool for that school through the
next year. We need to eliminate the distance between our developers
and schools by getting them in direct physical contact.

* During the year we will use several development sprints to broaden
and generalize the application, and to create versions for the current
partner schools (if they will still have us).

I am also considering re-occupying my old office at my former high
school and spending much of my time implementing and customizing
SchoolTool there. I've been trapped in a state where I can generally
write code that works, but it is far to ugly and insane and generally
below the standards of SchoolTool development. I think it is time for
me to just pounding stuff out on my own development branch, whether it
ends up making it into SchoolTool proper or just acts as a prototype
for subsequent coding by real developers.

That's the working plan... still under development.

I want to stress that we have built a solid foundation for SchoolTool,
and attendance, calendaring and demographics are in pretty good shape.
We're not having huge technical problems. We just need to organize
the work differently and push this baby over the hump.

--Tom
Gavin McCullagh
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Hoffman
So... Mark and Steve Alexander and I had a talk on Tuesday to plan out
some changes. These bits are still in the planning stages.
* We are going to hire a single full-time developer to handle the bulk
of SchoolTool development (instead of several part-time teams). I
would like this developer to also act more in the traditional role of
an open source project maintainer. I want to step away from trying to
be the mediator (or the "decider" as Bush would say) on technical
decisions. We may create a technical advisory board to help make
larger architectural decisions in the future.
* The full-time developer will work on site at a local school and will
create a complete version of SchoolTool for that school through the
next year. We need to eliminate the distance between our developers
and schools by getting them in direct physical contact.
So, are we now talking about September 2007 before SchoolTool will be
usable for taking attendance? This is the feature we really need right
now.

Gavin
Tom Hoffman
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gavin McCullagh
So, are we now talking about September 2007 before SchoolTool will be
usable for taking attendance? This is the feature we really need right
now.
Hi Gavin,

Attendance is still furthest along. IIRC from our emails, your plan
was to do some testing in October/November, and I think we should be
able to do that. I'm still trying to figure out how to make this
transition work, but we aren't going to come to a full stop for
several months until the lead developer is selected or found. We're
also going to some specific attendance testing with a school here in
Providence in the fall.

Overall, you and I may need to coordinate more closely to pull this
off than we would have otherwise, but I don't think you necessarily
have to drop the plan entirely. However, if all this is making you
squeamish, I totally understand. I don't want to cause you problems
(I want to solve them!).

--Tom
Gavin McCullagh
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Tom Hoffman
Attendance is still furthest along. IIRC from our emails, your plan
was to do some testing in October/November, and I think we should be
able to do that.
This is good to hear. I was starting to think about a temporary back-up
plan which involved writing a very simple web-based attendance module of my
own to get us through the first year.
Post by Tom Hoffman
Overall, you and I may need to coordinate more closely to pull this
off than we would have otherwise, but I don't think you necessarily
have to drop the plan entirely. However, if all this is making you
squeamish, I totally understand. I don't want to cause you problems
(I want to solve them!).
It does make me a little squeamish I must admit. I don't work on-site
during the day in the school so the odd little bug might be okay but
broadly speaking it needs to work. The other thing is that a major
change to the interface might cause some strife if we've already trained
teachers.

Gavin
Tom Hoffman
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gavin McCullagh
Post by Tom Hoffman
Overall, you and I may need to coordinate more closely to pull this
off than we would have otherwise, but I don't think you necessarily
have to drop the plan entirely. However, if all this is making you
squeamish, I totally understand. I don't want to cause you problems
(I want to solve them!).
It does make me a little squeamish I must admit. I don't work on-site
during the day in the school so the odd little bug might be okay but
broadly speaking it needs to work. The other thing is that a major
change to the interface might cause some strife if we've already trained
teachers.
This exact issue is a problem right now. We were very successful in
July during our sprint in redesigning the teacher facing pages,
particularly for attendance, but we won't have completed and
integrated that work until next month. But things should stay fairly
settled after that point, at least for the attendance-taking forms.

--Tom
Ken Gunderson
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:17:52 -0400
Post by Tom Hoffman
Hello all,
August has found SchoolTool in somewhat of a state of crisis. We are
(again) behind schedule, and while there are many small issues that
have caused delays, the overarching issue is that we planned and
budgeted for X hours of work from our various contractors, and we've
ended up with Y actual hours of work, where Y is about .5X. Beyond
that, I've got essentially no developers available now to get ready
for the start of the school year.
I'm not going to go into the gory details of how and why this
* We are simply not in a position to follow through with comprehensive
testing at our partner schools at the beginning of the school year.
This is frustrating and embarrassing for us, and a disappointment for
everyone concerned. I did select schools that have existing systems
that they can continue to use in the fall, so it should be at most an
inconvenience and not a crisis.
* We have to conclude that the way we've organized this project isn't
working. Specifically, I'm not aware of another open source project,
especially one of SchoolTool's complexity, which has tried to use
teams of part-time paid contractors to write the code. We've been
able to write lots of good code, good components, but *finishing*
SchoolTool as a unified, coherent application has eluded us, and it
feels like without changes I could be writing exactly the same
apologetic email every six months.
So... Mark and Steve Alexander and I had a talk on Tuesday to plan out
some changes. These bits are still in the planning stages.
* We are going to hire a single full-time developer to handle the bulk
of SchoolTool development (instead of several part-time teams). I
would like this developer to also act more in the traditional role of
an open source project maintainer. I want to step away from trying to
be the mediator (or the "decider" as Bush would say) on technical
decisions. We may create a technical advisory board to help make
larger architectural decisions in the future.
* The full-time developer will work on site at a local school and will
create a complete version of SchoolTool for that school through the
next year. We need to eliminate the distance between our developers
and schools by getting them in direct physical contact.
* During the year we will use several development sprints to broaden
and generalize the application, and to create versions for the current
partner schools (if they will still have us).
I am also considering re-occupying my old office at my former high
school and spending much of my time implementing and customizing
SchoolTool there. I've been trapped in a state where I can generally
write code that works, but it is far to ugly and insane and generally
below the standards of SchoolTool development. I think it is time for
me to just pounding stuff out on my own development branch, whether it
ends up making it into SchoolTool proper or just acts as a prototype
for subsequent coding by real developers.
That's the working plan... still under development.
I want to stress that we have built a solid foundation for SchoolTool,
and attendance, calendaring and demographics are in pretty good shape.
We're not having huge technical problems. We just need to organize
the work differently and push this baby over the hump.
I've been following this project for some years now. I might
suggest you hire not one, but two full time programmers - individuals
who're competent implementing an XP approach. Just an idea...
--
Best regards,

Ken Gunderson

"The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty
decreases." (Thomas Jefferson)
Tom Hoffman
2006-10-16 23:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Gunderson
I've been following this project for some years now. I might
suggest you hire not one, but two full time programmers - individuals
who're competent implementing an XP approach. Just an idea...
Well, yes, two would be nice, but I've got money for one. ;-)

--Tom
Mark Shuttleworth
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Hoffman
Post by Ken Gunderson
I've been following this project for some years now. I might
suggest you hire not one, but two full time programmers - individuals
who're competent implementing an XP approach. Just an idea...
Well, yes, two would be nice, but I've got money for one. ;-)
I'm happy to fund two if they are known to work well together. I'm
committed to seeing this thing through. My requirements are that they be
(a) proven good Python, and (b) passionate about building something that
will work well in schools. Ideally, I would like them *based* in a
school, with one focused on the architecture and the other focused on
usability / practicality.

Mark

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jelkner at divmod.com ()
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
As someone who now has a deep personal interest in the future of SchoolTool (I've sort of bet the farm on it, so to speak ;-), this is wonderful news indeed.

I'd like to make one further suggestion as to the qualifications of at least one of the programmers: that they be open to actively working to grow the developer community around SchoolTool and to help guide new SchoolTool developers as they develop their skills.

I say this because as a high school teacher I am actively working to train a group of SchoolTool developers from among the top student developers within our school system. We actually have funds to pay them to work over the summer, to attend sprints, etc.

The ultimate success of this effort will depend in no small part on how effectively these student developers can learn their craft. Stephan Richter was excellent in this regard, and thanks to Paul Carduner's visit to Boston last Thanksgiving to work with Stephan, his level of Zope 3 understanding grew tremendously. He is now in a position to effectively contribute to core SchoolTool development.

We need to continue that kind of training if the next generation of SchoolTool developers is to come of age.

Thanks!

jeff
Post by Mark Shuttleworth
Post by Tom Hoffman
Post by Ken Gunderson
I've been following this project for some years now. I might
suggest you hire not one, but two full time programmers - individuals
who're competent implementing an XP approach. Just an idea...
Well, yes, two would be nice, but I've got money for one. ;-)
I'm happy to fund two if they are known to work well together. I'm
committed to seeing this thing through. My requirements are that they be
(a) proven good Python, and (b) passionate about building something that
will work well in schools. Ideally, I would like them *based* in a
school, with one focused on the architecture and the other focused on
usability / practicality.
Mark
Nicolas Pettiaux
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Thank a lot Mark for your proposal.
Post by jelkner at divmod.com ()
As someone who now has a deep personal interest in the future of SchoolTool (I've sort of bet the farm on it, so to speak ;-), this is wonderful news indeed.
I am not as commited as Jeff on ST but I have also engaged the La
Futaie school to use it and I have a strong interest in it.
Post by jelkner at divmod.com ()
I'd like to make one further suggestion as to the qualifications of at least one of the programmers: that they be open to actively working to grow the developer community around SchoolTool and to help guide new SchoolTool developers as they develop their skills.
I can only support this suggestion by Jeff. I wanted to have a student
of mine who knows python to go on for a paid (not a lot I admit !)
developpement around ST and Jeff"s and Paul's work, and Hugo told me
he needs some help in going further just to learn how to manage Zope3
developpement.
Post by jelkner at divmod.com ()
I say this because as a high school teacher I am actively working to train a group of SchoolTool developers from among the top student developers within our school system. We actually have funds to pay them to work over the summer, to attend sprints, etc.
I hope to be able to go as far as that some day
Post by jelkner at divmod.com ()
The ultimate success of this effort will depend in no small part on how effectively these student developers can learn their craft. Stephan Richter was excellent in this regard, and thanks to Paul Carduner's visit to Boston last Thanksgiving to work with Stephan, his level of Zope 3 understanding grew tremendously. He is now in a position to effectively contribute to core SchoolTool development.
We need to continue that kind of training if the next generation of SchoolTool developers is to come of age.
definitively, yes.

THanks,

Nicolas
--
Nicolas Pettiaux - email: ***@ael.be
Denis Frère
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello all,

There are a few people I know on this list... :-)
I step in the discussion, if you permit.

For those who don't know me, here's a short resume.

I've been a (poorly skilled compared to some others) Python developer,
manager of a small team called Aragne, and the local organizer of the
first two EuroPython Conferences (EuroPython 2002 and 2003 in
Charleroi).
After having had some difficulties with my company, I decided to take
a break from software development and became a teacher in a secondary
school.
During this summer hollidays, I started to feel much better (mood) and
started back to play with Python, Zope3 and Django. Anyway, I don't
have in mind to come back to professionnal IT activities soon, I will
continue to be a teacher during this academic year.

So, we are here on the list at least two belgian teachers with a deep
interest in free-software, Python/Zope, with lobbying activities, some
commercial skills, etc. Namely Nicolas Pettiaux and me.

Now, just brainstorming...

Nicolas, what about trying to hire Jean-Fran?ois Roche to work on
Schooltool : he's just graduated in IT, he knows Zope well (e.g. he's
the ZPhotoSlides creator), ... he is a guy who could do the job. I
could help him during my free time, introduce him in my school, second
him. You could do the same in your school.

We could then submit a project to Marie Arena (our Minister of
Education) showing real results. My school director knows her well
(their husbands have worked together). She's invited in our school on
the 26th, this month...

Everything fit well. I'm sure we could get results...
--
Denis
Tom Hoffman
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Denis Frère
Now, just brainstorming...
Nicolas, what about trying to hire Jean-Fran?ois Roche to work on
Schooltool : he's just graduated in IT, he knows Zope well (e.g. he's
the ZPhotoSlides creator), ... he is a guy who could do the job. I
could help him during my free time, introduce him in my school, second
him. You could do the same in your school.
We could then submit a project to Marie Arena (our Minister of
Education) showing real results. My school director knows her well
(their husbands have worked together). She's invited in our school on
the 26th, this month...
Everything fit well. I'm sure we could get results...
I am be interested in hearing more about this idea... or others from
other readers and lurkers on the list. Now is the time to speak up.

--Tom
kit BLAKE
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Hoffman
Post by Denis Frère
Now, just brainstorming...
Nicolas, what about trying to hire Jean-Fran?ois Roche to work on
Schooltool : he's just graduated in IT, he knows Zope well (e.g. he's
the ZPhotoSlides creator), ... he is a guy who could do the job. I
could help him during my free time, introduce him in my school, second
him. You could do the same in your school.
We could then submit a project to Marie Arena (our Minister of
Education) showing real results. My school director knows her well
(their husbands have worked together). She's invited in our school on
the 26th, this month...
Everything fit well. I'm sure we could get results...
I am be interested in hearing more about this idea... or others from
other readers and lurkers on the list. Now is the time to speak up.
I'll second the idea of getting Jean-Fran?ois Roche on board. I can
vouch for his skills.
kit
--
kit BLAKE ? Infrae ? http://infrae.com + 31 10 243 7051
Hoevestraat 10 ? 3033 GC ? Rotterdam + The Netherlands
Contact = http://xri.net/=kitblake
Denis Frère
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by kit BLAKE
Post by Tom Hoffman
[...] Nicolas, what about trying to hire Jean-Fran?ois Roche to work on
Schooltool : he's just graduated in IT, he knows Zope well (e.g. he's
the ZPhotoSlides creator), ... he is a guy who could do the job. [...]
I am be interested in hearing more about this idea... or others from
other readers and lurkers on the list. Now is the time to speak up.
I'll second the idea of getting Jean-Fran?ois Roche on board. I can
vouch for his skills.
Hi Kit (thanks for your approbation).

Jean-Fran?ois Roche is coming to my home for supper this sunday. I
will talk to him about it.

I know that he has been sollicited by a few compagnies. Our chance is
that he has fall in love with a girl of the neighborhood, so, he wants
to stay local (Charleroi).

What does Mark think about it ? I would like to hear his opinion since
he's the one who can make the proposition come true. I don't want to
start making a fuss about it before knowing it's a concrete idea.

Good week-end,

Denis
Tom Hoffman
2006-10-16 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Denis Frère
What does Mark think about it ? I would like to hear his opinion since
he's the one who can make the proposition come true. I don't want to
start making a fuss about it before knowing it's a concrete idea.
I'm happy to fund two if they are known to work well together.
I'm committed to seeing this thing through. My requirements
are that they be (a) proven good Python, and (b) passionate
about building something that will work well in schools. Ideally, I > would like them *based* in a school, with one focused on the
architecture and the other focused on usability / practicality.
So I'd take that seriously.

--Tom

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